Fiona Scott, SMEToday feature writer, recently interviewed Deborah Meaden who is currently working with the team at Nestle Professional as part of their Nescafe B2B project, ‘Let’s Partner Up For Good’. The aim of the project is to provide advice and guidance to small business owners. Seven lucky winners were selected to meet Deborah face to face alongside Katya Simmons, managing director at Nescafe by Nestle Professional. The sessions were filmed to provide wider impact and support to other SMEs as common themes were discussed. The first set of videos were released last month. For more information visit https://bit.ly/489BG6q
A small business owner might be thinking ‘why is Deborah Meaden talking about small business in relation to a coffee brand’? Can you explain?
Well, it’s a good question—one I asked myself as well. Whenever someone invites me to get involved in something, I always think, “Why? Why me?”
For me, this is a very practical approach by a well-known brand to give back and address many of the issues small businesses are currently facing. It’s an opportunity for some small business owners to receive solid, practical advice. I thought it was a great initiative, and I believe it will help many others as the videos are released.
One Thing Which Comes Out Of The Videos Is Your Ability To Encourage Business Owners To Think Differently – Especially When It Comes To Products. Why Is That?
The first thing I would say is I know that it might be your dream to be stocked by a supermarket or major retailer, but you should question whether or not you really want to be there.
Once you enter into that world, your margins often go down and your costs will go up. There are many other areas you can sell into before you enter that particular arena.
When I go into Dragon’s Den it’s common for me to hear “I want to be in Sainsbury’s”, or “I want to be in Waitrose” but, you must consider if you are actually ready for that.
Large supermarket chains have established systems for procurement and a very specific set of rules. Especially now, with the growing emphasis on ESG and the regulations they must adhere to, they need to enforce these standards throughout their supply chain. Therefore, their suppliers must be prepared to meet these requirements. You don’t want to jump in too early, risk failure, and end up on the back foot.
But if you do feel that you are ready, then there are professionals out there who do nothing but get brands ‘supermarket ready’ – and that may be the next step for you.
As You’ve Mentioned ESG Do You Think Small Businesses Are Taking Sustainability Seriously?
There’s definitely a ‘will’ among small businesses. If you have kids, or if you look at what’s happening in the world right now, you’re going to be concerned about sustainability. You’re probably already thinking about it at home—doing your recycling, trying to cut down on plastic.
You might want to bring that same approach to work, but if you’re an SME, you don’t have a huge team, and you probably don’t have someone dedicated to it. So it’s easy to do what you can, but maybe not in a really organised way.
The risk for a product-based business, in particular, is that when you’re almost supermarket-ready and they ask, “Show me your criteria. What’s your sustainability plan?” you can’t deliver because you’re not measuring things, so you can’t say, “This is where we are.”
These days, all businesses need a plan. It doesn’t have to be overly complicated, but you need to show that you’re serious about it.
It’s easy to keep putting it off. It might not feel urgent now, but suddenly, it will be—and then it becomes a barrier.
One of my key messages is: “This is happening, and if you’re not on it, one day you’ll wake up and be way behind the pace.”
Is Life Difficult For Small Businesses At The Moment?
Part of my answer, unfortunately, ties into the Budget. We’ve heard lots of positive and comforting things, but there’s also some news that sounds a bit worrying.
We won’t really know what the landscape looks like until after the Budget is announced. We’re already in a more stable environment, and what small businesses don’t need is to spend time worrying about what’s coming next.
We obviously need a thriving economy, we need employment, and we need clear terms on how we can employ people.
I Asked Several Small Business Owners To Share Some Questions They’d Like To Ask You. This Is The First – What Did You Dream Of Being When You Were A Child?
I dreamt of being a show jumper, but I just wasn’t good enough. It’s as simple as that. I wasn’t very good at it, but it was a dream.
I think I’ve always been pretty self-aware. I always had the good sense to think, “Well, I’ll give it a go, but I’m not sure I’m good enough,” and I wasn’t.
I’ve always loved horses. We couldn’t afford them when I was growing up, but I’ve always loved animals.
Did You Aspire To Be A Business Owner?
While I dreamt of being a show jumper, I never really thought that would happen. But I always had a feeling I’d have my own business. As a child, I didn’t play doctors or nurses—it was always about running a shop or a car wash. So, yes, somehow I always knew.
Where Did That Knowledge Come From?
When I was small, my mother divorced my father, so from the age of less than two to about seven, we were a single-parent family, and my mother is naturally entrepreneurial. We were always talking about how she could improve our lives and make money.
I think part of it comes from absorbing that, but I also believe certain characteristics are common among entrepreneurs. We may not look the same, but generally speaking, there’s the ability to take risks, exercise good judgment, stay curious about the world, and keep an eye on the bigger picture.
There’s also a certain level of confidence, sometimes bordering on arrogance. And then there’s the ability to make decisions and stand by them—some people just can’t make decisions, they keep asking more questions to avoid it.
I think those traits are present in most entrepreneurs I know, and they’re possibly intrinsic.
Another Question For You – How Do You Deal With Conflict?
I currently have a small team, but I’ve invested in several businesses with larger teams, so most of the conflict I deal with is within businesses. Often, it involves founders, and I’ve recently dealt with a case where things weren’t working because they hadn’t resolved internal conflict.
You always have to understand what’s really driving the conflict. In my experience, it’s usually personal reasons. For example, you might have a business that’s ready to exit, and three founders are eager to sell while one doesn’t want to.
It’s crucial to understand why someone is feeling the way they are or why they’re presenting themselves negatively, or you’ll never get to the root of it.
You need to create a safe, open space where people can be honest. It’s not just about addressing the conflict itself but understanding what’s causing it. If you don’t do that, you’re just putting a sticking plaster on it, and it’ll keep resurfacing.
Another Business Owner Has Asked – What Does Success Mean For You?
It’s easy to say it’s ‘not’ the money once you have it. But trust me, there were times earlier in my life when it was absolutely about the money because I didn’t have any, and I needed to earn it.
Now, it’s true—I don’t need to work. I don’t have to do Dragons’ Den, and I can pretty much do whatever I want. But I choose to keep doing what I’ve been doing my whole life, and I consider myself very lucky for that.
For me, success is about finding balance. Life is never all good, and it’s rarely all bad, even though sometimes it can feel that way. Success is when you get to the point where you spend more days happy and content than you do having bad days.
The fact is, I can ride when I want to, I can spend time at home when I want, and I have fantastic businesses that I absolutely love. I’m incredibly busy, but it’s ‘good busy.’ Very rarely do I feel ‘bad busy.’ When that happens, I have to stop and ask myself, “Hold on a minute. What’s causing this?”
Another Question Is Would You Recommend A Business Coach Or Accountability Partner – Or Should Self Motivation Be Enough?
I think it depends on the individual and what you’re going through at the time. You might feel a bit lost, and having a mentor can help you regain focus.
No matter how self-motivated you are, we’ve all had moments where our heads are scrambled, and we’re unsure of what to do next. That’s when a mentor can be really helpful.
It’s about being honest with yourself. If you’re someone who easily gets distracted, you might need someone to keep you focused. Find an accountability partner who brings value to the table, because otherwise, you won’t truly respect them. Look at the areas where your organisation is lacking and think, “I’m really good at this, but not so great at that, and that’s why I’m avoiding it.”
Then, get a partner who can fill those gaps. Good entrepreneurs understand what they’re good at and, more importantly, what they’re not good at.
For me, a good business coach is someone who’s working themselves out of your life. They should be empowering you and helping you reach a point where you don’t need them anymore. If that’s not their intention and they’re just extending their involvement, it’s time to get rid of them.
Did Your Friendship Group Change When It Became Clear You Were Now Wealthy And Successful?
With my closest friends, no, we don’t talk about work at all. My close friends come in all shapes and sizes and from various walks of life. I like them because they’re good people, and I really don’t care whether they have money or not. They seem to feel the same way about me, which is great.
That said, you have to be careful about your own behaviour. If you used to split bills, then keep splitting them. Spreading your generosity around in an arrogant way can make friends feel like they’re not in control and that you’ve changed.
The truth is, I don’t think of myself as a wealthy person; I’m just continuing to be me.
Some of the friends I consider more ‘peripheral’ suddenly started reacting differently to my usual behaviours, which have always been part of me. For example, I’m not great on the phone. I’m much better in one-on-one conversations, and I very rarely call people just to chat. To me, the phone is a tool for business. So, suddenly they think, “Well, she must be too busy to call us now,” and that’s not the case at all. I’ve never enjoyed chatting on the phone!
Do You Believe In Influencer Marketing?
Yes, there’s absolutely no doubt about it—you can sell products through influencer marketing. For example, I’m an investor in Fussy Deodorant, and I just completed a video that went viral on TikTok, so I guess that counts as a form of influencing.
I see it as just an ad, but since I’m involved, it’s clearly gained traction.
I get asked all the time to participate in influencer marketing personally, and I always think, “Would I do this? Is it valuable? Is it of high quality? Am I comfortable being part of it?”
I’m invested in and passionate about this business, but personally, I’m not the type to sell products by showcasing lipstick or hair products—that’s just not my thing at all. But it definitely works for many people, so you can’t ignore it.
When You Invest, In Dragons’ Den Or Otherwise, Which Comes First, The Product/Service Or The Person?
Actually, that’s hard to say because it’s an overall picture; life is never just one or the other, is it?
The truth is, we might have a fantastic product and an absolutely perfect pitch, but it can still fail. The biggest issue for me when someone is pitching is, “Are they telling me the truth? Do I trust them?” That’s my final ‘switch.’
I tend to go through a checklist of questions in my head, and it always comes down to that last one—do I trust them? If I can’t answer that positively, then my ‘switch’ doesn’t flip, and I’m not investing. I don’t care how good the product is or how well they present.
I’d invest in a good person with an okay product because they’ll likely find a way to make it work. I’ve invested in a fantastic product where the individuals were upfront, saying, “I know nothing about business; don’t ask me for any numbers, but I’ve got this brilliant product.” I trusted them and believed in their honesty, which allowed us to build a straightforward relationship.
So, it’s a bit of a combination. But if you had to ask me which one edges it for me, it would probably be the person.
From What You Are Saying, You Trust Your Gut Feeling A Lot?
I do, but gut feeling isn’t just instinct; it’s built on years of experience. It’s that sense that something isn’t right, even if I can’t quite put my finger on it.
To be fair, I can get caught out, but not often.
Another Small Business Question – What Has Been Your Biggest Challenge In Business & How Did You Overcome It?
I find that really hard to answer because I’ve learned that things that seem enormous at the time often become insignificant once you’ve overcome them.
If I have to pinpoint something, it would probably be when I did the management buyout of my family’s business, Weststar Holidays. I was already working in the business when I decided to go for the buyout.
That’s tough anyway, especially since we all had different advisors. I was bidding to buy a business that happened to be my family’s, which made it difficult. I was competing against other businesses, too, and that was a pretty stressful process. It got even more challenging when the bank pulled out at the last minute and decided not to back me, so I had to find another funder, which was tricky.
But now, that’s all in the past. We’re all great friends, and I see them all the time.
I think, in life, it’s important not to carry the tough stuff with you. Holding onto your difficulties just weighs you down. Deal with it and move on.
When You Could Choose To ‘Put Your Feet Up’ Why Do Business Owners Still Bring You Joy?
What I love about business is that nearly all the world’s problems have been solved by entrepreneurs. They come up with ideas and refuse to see barriers. They don’t accept that you can’t do something; they’re constantly finding new and different ways to approach challenges because that’s just how their minds work, and it’s incredibly creative.
I’m a pretty high-energy person myself, and I think I get that from being around others who are the same. Some of the ideas that come into Dragons’ Den are a bit loopy, but at least they’re thinking. At least they’re not just sitting on their sofas saying, “I could have done that.”
Business is also a great avenue for tackling a lot of issues, including societal ones. A lot of the changes regarding equality are driven by businesses and workplaces. It’s a wonderful place to influence the world.
Sustainability is another area we can work towards solving. The government tends to be too slow, but business can move much faster.
Do You Have Any ‘Business’ Icons Or Heroes Yourself?
I think there are too many people who look at business icons and put them on a pedestal. The truth is, no one person has it all figured out. For me, I meet amazing people doing incredible things regularly, and I learn from all of them.
I’ll think, “That was brilliant; I’m going to add that to my toolbox,”. But I might not like or admire other aspects of what they do.
I don’t believe in heroism. Instead, I think you should keep your eyes open for people, because even the most unlikely individuals can do extraordinary things—things you wouldn’t imagine they were capable of. They can show astonishing courage, creativity, and resilience when they’re put on the spot or in a particular situation.
Do You Think Many Mature Women In Business – And Life – Can Feel Invisible?
Women are equal, they’re just not always recognised as equal. The best way to change someone else’s perception of you is to change your perception of yourself.
We cannot make others behave differently, but you can change your own behaviour, and that will prompt them to respond to you in a different way.
The power that women have is their own power because they can’t change anyone else. It’s important to ensure that you don’t see yourself as invisible and to feel valid and confident enough to say, “I’m going to speak up because I have something valuable to contribute, and my input matters.” I don’t go quietly, and I won’t go quietly through life.
If Someone Says The Word ‘Retirement’ How Does That Make You Feel?
It’s an anathema! I’m sure it is for you too. I mean, why would I? I love what I’m doing. Are you mad?
